The worms reloaded rope is fine and balanced

[DrMelon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDfPiZR3NEw

I'm not kidding.

[SilPho]

Considering the game has been out for under 24 hours, that looks like good progress to me. With a bit of practice these game modes should make a return, some tweaks might be needed but that's fine.

Would be nice if people actually gave themselves a chance to get used to the new physics rather than demand it to be exactly how they want it.

[NikeStyle]

Hi, I have just tried the new game... Everything looks very ok, but I cant play with this kind of rope... It was perfect on WWP, it was ok on W:A... And now, wall x wall game type is going to die for me.

[EvilJolly]

You simply can't do the complex tricks and agile movements that you could before. Sure, you can get around, but it's just not the "fun" rope that it used to be.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf5vlEr_wMQ

Watch that video. A lot of the comments are saying he cheated by running the game in slow-mo, but never the less, it's a good example of the old ninja rope physics.

Now come on, tell me that doesn't look like more fun than the ninja rope you're using now...

[greyze]

I hope Team17 don't give in to the whiney pressure.

The new physics make the game WAAY much more interesting than just another rehash, also its much more realistic with such things as grenades bouncing. Of course it needs a little tweaking but its overall good.

The rope, I would consider a worthy nerf.
The WA Rope was indeed fun, but it was by far the most overpowered item in that game, giving the user the ability to travel the whole landscape, killing worms without even losing a turn etc. Things like that made most items, tactics and stratergys completely useless as the rope was a sure way to win always for example, the teleport.
The rope serves its purpose, and made significantly harder to use so its much more fun now your able to use all kinds of items and tactics to win the game, not rope your way to victory as 99% of WA games are about.

If T17 make the rope like WA, the game will immediately turn rubbish and make it feel pointless even creating and/or paying £17 for it.

The only thing the game needs is UI tweaking as many people have expressed.

[DrMelon]

Originally Posted by greyze

I hope Team17 don't give in to the whiney pressure.

The new physics make the game WAAY much more interesting than just another rehash, also its much more realistic with such things as grenades bouncing. Of course it needs a little tweaking but its overall good.

The rope, I would consider a worthy nerf.
The WA Rope was indeed fun, but it was by far the most overpowered item in that game, giving the user the ability to travel the whole landscape, killing worms without even losing a turn etc. Things like that made most items, tactics and stratergys completely useless as the rope was a sure way to win always for example, the teleport.
The rope serves its purpose, and made significantly harder to use so its much more fun now your able to use all kinds of items and tactics to win the game, not rope your way to victory as 99% of WA games are about.

If T17 make the rope like WA, the game will immediately turn rubbish and make it feel pointless even creating and/or paying £17 for it.

The only thing the game needs is UI tweaking as many people have expressed.

This. This is what I wanted to say.

[Shroom!]

Originally Posted by greyze

I hope Team17 don't give in to the whiney pressure.

The new physics make the game WAAY much more interesting than just another rehash, also its much more realistic with such things as grenades bouncing. Of course it needs a little tweaking but its overall good.

The rope, I would consider a worthy nerf.
The WA Rope was indeed fun, but it was by far the most overpowered item in that game, giving the user the ability to travel the whole landscape, killing worms without even losing a turn etc. Things like that made most items, tactics and stratergys completely useless as the rope was a sure way to win always for example, the teleport.
The rope serves its purpose, and made significantly harder to use so its much more fun now your able to use all kinds of items and tactics to win the game, not rope your way to victory as 99% of WA games are about.

If T17 make the rope like WA, the game will immediately turn rubbish and make it feel pointless even creating and/or paying £17 for it.

The only thing the game needs is UI tweaking as many people have expressed.

And that's the whole point of shopper!

[DrMelon]

Originally Posted by Shroom!

And that's the whole point of shopper!

Because Shopper = Worms, yeah?

[BetongÅsna]

I love you, this thread.

[Shroom!]

Originally Posted by DrMelon

Because Shopper = Worms, yeah?

To many people, yes. Once I started playing Shopper I rarely found myself playing other schemes. That W:A rope is just so addictive!

[Kalan]

Originally Posted by Shroom!

To many people, yes. Once I started playing Shopper I rarely found myself playing other schemes. That W:A rope is just so addictive!

Then you and those other people are not playing Worms at it's full capacity.

I play Shopper, Rope Race and Standard, and probably some mixed deathmatch modes.

[Shroom!]

Originally Posted by Kalan

Then you and those other people are not playing Worms at it's full capacity.

I play Shopper, Rope Race and Standard, and probably some mixed deathmatch modes.

I do play rope race sometimes and use to host my own "Normal" but different scheme, before I started having issues hosting without hostingbuddy. Before I started roping I played normal 90% of the time. I will play normal in W:R but I would like to be able to play shopper style games too, with a rope that is capable of doing it. Choice is what is important. This new game should cater for noobs and old school ropers alike. It's almost like Team17 have headed down Nintendo lane - only caring about newcomers.

[andshrew]

Originally Posted by DrMelon

Because Shopper = Worms, yeah?

I really don't get your crusade against people who liked the WA rope.

For me and many others Worms = customisation. The ability to create schemes and games tailored around what you and your friends wanted to play, and in this area Reloaded is really lacking which is disappointing given is was touted as being very customizable. They keep telling us what is and isn't fun, rather than that just giving the options to play how we want (more than 4 worms?! That's not fun so you can't do that!).

I don't think it's to much to ask to have the option to enable a 'super' rope like previous games - if you don't like it you don't have to play with it.

Looking at the games files it looks like there's plenty of potential for modifying the weapon and worm parameter files if they let us - which hopefully they will.

[Drury]

Originally Posted by Shroom!

It's almost like Team17 have headed down Nintendo lane - only caring about newcomers.

Wait, why did they reused soundtrack from WA, soundbanks from WA, graphics from WA, almost everything from WA? I'm confused.

[Xen]

Originally Posted by Shroom!

I do play rope race sometimes and use to host my own "Normal" but different scheme, before I started having issues hosting without hostingbuddy. Before I started roping I played normal 90% of the time. I will play normal in W:R but I would like to be able to play shopper style games too, with a rope that is capable of doing it. Choice is what is important. This new game should cater for noobs and old school ropers alike. It's almost like Team17 have headed down Nintendo lane - only caring about newcomers.

This is how I feel. Options would be nice, but unfortunately seeing as how the beta came and went I don't believe this will happen.

[Grabondall]

I really don't get this rope whining. It's not THAT bad.


Just get used or go back to WA if you are really that sad. The rope doesn't need to be fixed.

[jsgnext]

Originally Posted by NikeStyle

Hi, I have just tried the new game... Everything looks very ok, but I cant play with this kind of rope... It was perfect on WWP, it was ok on W:A... And now, wall x wall game type is going to die for me.

its funny coz the WA and WWp is the same rope....the difference is that in WWp you can make it larger with wormpot, but thats all...
I think the WR rope is better than I expected....its not as cool as WA/WWp one, that rope will never come back (deal with it), but its cool anyway....
About the Menus....this is a pseudo-ported game....do not expect too much for it....

[EvilJolly]

Branding an opinion as whining is a common tactic for people to try and win arguments. Can we just quit with the childish belittlement already?

I'm sure a lot of the people who say the ninja rope is fine were never into ninja roping like many of the people who think it should be changed.

Look, if I was playing a regular game, sure...ninja ropes would be fine. The thing is, a very large portion of players in Worms2 and WA focused strictly around the rope. I don't understand how a mode of transportation can be considered overpowered if everyone is allowed to use it. You even have the ability to take it out of the game if you want.

Instead of arguing over this, I vote we petition for a "classic rope" option under game settings. I think this would make everyone happy. Look at Tribes2. They completely changed the way that "skiing" worked, and most Tribes1 players hated it, but then they introduced "classic" physics and you never heard another complaint.

I think having an option is the best solution. I want to play games of Worms focused completely around the ninja rope, and the new rope is well...boring and slow.

[DrMelon]

Besides, now that it's direct T17-to-consumer patching now (instead of having to go through THQ then through Microsoft etc) the UI can be modified and patched in easily.

[ForgotWhat]

Originally Posted by andshrew

I really don't get your crusade against people who liked the WA rope.

For me and many others Worms = customisation. The ability to create schemes and games tailored around what you and your friends wanted to play, and in this area Reloaded is really lacking which is disappointing given is was touted as being very customizable. They keep telling us what is and isn't fun, rather than that just giving the options to play how we want (more than 4 worms?! That's not fun so you can't do that!).

I don't think it's to much to ask to have the option to enable a 'super' rope like previous games - if you don't like it you don't have to play with it.

Looking at the games files it looks like there's plenty of potential for modifying the weapon and worm parameter files if they let us - which hopefully they will.

I don't understand why some people are so against something that worked so well in their other games either. I am for the idea of a "super" or "classic" rope option to appease both sides.

Please bring back the rope we know and love Team17, at least as an option. The new rope has completely killed the possibility of having fun games centered completely around the ninja rope.

[MonkeyforaHead]

I approve of this thread.

Seriously, if the rope is going to be tweaked further to make it floatier and yet more like the W:A rope, that should be a separate option, not on by default. Include it for the people who want to do shoppers and rope races -- although I have no idea if it's even possible to tweak the rope to be powerful enough to effectively run rope races on the new engine. The worms themselves are a lot heavier now, and unless the rope can somehow be tweaked to change the physics engine entirely there may not be a lot that can be done about that.

[Akuryou13]

Originally Posted by Shroom!

It's almost like Team17 have headed down Nintendo lane - only caring about newcomers.

actually, no. They care about old schoolers too. look at armageddon. everyone who plays it is a roper. all us old guys who loved worms for the strategy and the fun got booted out because all you new guys wanted to do was fling yourselves across the map with the rope. I've logged into armageddon several times throughout the new patches and never once did I see a normal game. I'm sure they happened from time to time, but the vast majority of the games are ropers or shoppers.

Team17 are catering to those of us who like ALL of worms armageddon, not just one item. With this game, we'll actually be able to play BnGs again, Normal games again. There will actually be a ranking list where the top player isn't just the best guy at using the ninja rope.

And the best part? Armageddon is being updated by someone not directly involved in T17, and will continue to be updated even with Reloaded out. That means that those of you who love your rope games can still play them with the entirety of the community that loves the rope games. The rest of us finally have a home now too. it's completely win-win.

[Esbern]

Originally Posted by MonkeyforaHead

I approve of this thread.

Seriously, if the rope is going to be tweaked further to make it floatier and yet more like the W:A rope, that should be a separate option, not on by default. Include it for the people who want to do shoppers and rope races -- although I have no idea if it's even possible to tweak the rope to be powerful enough to effectively run rope races on the new engine. The worms themselves are a lot heavier now, and unless the rope can somehow be tweaked to change the physics engine entirely there may not be a lot that can be done about that.

Yeah, I thought the same thing. It would also need a lot of work from the devs...

[Esbern]

Originally Posted by Akuryou13

actually, no. They care about old schoolers too. look at armageddon. everyone who plays it is a roper. all us old guys who loved worms for the strategy and the fun got booted out because all you new guys wanted to do was fling yourselves across the map with the rope. I've logged into armageddon several times throughout the new patches and never once did I see a normal game. I'm sure they happened from time to time, but the vast majority of the games are ropers or shoppers.

Team17 are catering to those of us who like ALL of worms armageddon, not just one item. With this game, we'll actually be able to play BnGs again, Normal games again. There will actually be a ranking list where the top player isn't just the best guy at using the ninja rope.

And the best part? Armageddon is being updated by someone not directly involved in T17, and will continue to be updated even with Reloaded out. That means that those of you who love your rope games can still play them with the entirety of the community that loves the rope games. The rest of us finally have a home now too. it's completely win-win.

Reading this made me happy. Thank you.

[lucidry]

Originally Posted by SilPho

Considering the game has been out for under 24 hours, that looks like good progress to me. With a bit of practice these game modes should make a return, some tweaks might be needed but that's fine.

Would be nice if people actually gave themselves a chance to get used to the new physics rather than demand it to be exactly how they want it.

the problem is, the new version doesn't use any sense-driven physics, for roping. I have a couple problems with the way roping has gone. Someone else said this game would be rubbish if they changed it. NO. wrong. There are many different modes of play and just because Worms: Armageddon's rope physics allowed people to become very good at roping and doing different tricks does not mean it ruins it for everyone else, if you don't like "roperacing" or "pro-roper" or "crate shopper" etc, then play "forts" or anything else that doesn't use ropes or uses less of it.

As for the change in the roping, nothing feels right about the way the rope controls any more, your momentum completely dies when you let go , you can't 'spring' or 'toss' yourself with the rope nearly as well as you could in worms armageddon.

Please let the biggest fans of this series have their wish and tailor the rope swinging to the way it was in Worms: Armageddon, those gamers have waited years and hoped and waited for a newer prettier version of worms with that style of roping. I certainly do. If you people who can't get used to the better physics of roping in worms armageddon, perhaps the developer could make different schemes that change the reaction of the rope to tailor to you more novice 'non-fans' of the roping that made W:A so popular.

I really enjoy the look of this new game, but certainly it needs to feel more like a PC game again, it does need that work to be done on it to not feel like a console port. I am not disappointed with the way this game looks or anything like that, But i AM sincerely disappointed in the physics of the way roping works, and people do not want to 'roperace' with the physics the way they are presently in worms reloaded, and for good reason.

[Kalan]

Originally Posted by Akuryou13

actually, no. They care about old schoolers too. look at armageddon. everyone who plays it is a roper. all us old guys who loved worms for the strategy and the fun got booted out because all you new guys wanted to do was fling yourselves across the map with the rope. I've logged into armageddon several times throughout the new patches and never once did I see a normal game. I'm sure they happened from time to time, but the vast majority of the games are ropers or shoppers.

Team17 are catering to those of us who like ALL of worms armageddon, not just one item. With this game, we'll actually be able to play BnGs again, Normal games again. There will actually be a ranking list where the top player isn't just the best guy at using the ninja rope.

And the best part? Armageddon is being updated by someone not directly involved in T17, and will continue to be updated even with Reloaded out. That means that those of you who love your rope games can still play them with the entirety of the community that loves the rope games. The rest of us finally have a home now too. it's completely win-win.

I love you.
Please have my babies.

But still, if you host your own intermediate/normal game, people WILL come in. Most of the times that I host an Intermediate with HostingBuddy I get some players...

Last time I got 3 players and 1 spectator...

[AngeloG]

I agree, the rope is perfectly fine!

[Dassassin]

It may be "Balanced", but it's certainly not "Fun".

I think the rope "needed" a nerf, but a new rope with the maneuverability of the one we're used to from W:A would make things much more interesting.

Of course, complaining here isn't the solution -- playing WA is.

[Extremist2]

Originally Posted by Akuryou13

look at armageddon. everyone who plays it is a roper. all us old guys who loved worms for the strategy and the fun got booted out because all you new guys wanted to do was fling yourselves across the map with the rope. I've logged into armageddon several times throughout the new patches and never once did I see a normal game. I'm sure they happened from time to time, but the vast majority of the games are ropers or shoppers.

With this game, we'll actually be able to play BnGs again, Normal games again. There will actually be a ranking list where the top player isn't just the best guy at using the ninja rope.

And the best part? Armageddon is being updated by someone not directly involved in T17, and will continue to be updated even with Reloaded out. That means that those of you who love your rope games can still play them with the entirety of the community that loves the rope games. The rest of us finally have a home now too. it's completely win-win.

I love you, except for that last part.

Armageddon & Reloaded use two different physics systems. IMO, this one feature is 50% of what makes WA so amazing. The high-accuracy physics.

Now, from what I've seen of Reloaded so far, the physics have been improved from W2:A. Less floaty throwing weapons, more ground-to-worm friction. But I highly doubt that WA's uber-precision has been duplicated.

What I mean by high-precision is, you KNOW how your worm will land when you jump, everytime. You KNOW how many bounces your grenade will take, everytime. You KNOW how far your worm will slide after being hit, everytime. The same goes for wind, damage, throwing arcs, explosion force, etc.

Compared to that, W2:A feels incredibly random. Funny bounces, slipping-and-sliding, "weird" wind, etc.

I'm sure some will just say "but you learned how to be accurate". When I first played WA, I knew within minutes what to expect when I performed an action. The learning curve comes during fine tuning. With W2:A, however, I have many hours under my belt, and with every action it's 50-50 as to how it's going to turn out. I've tried to predict, but it just doesn't work.

Reloaded appears to be halfway in-between these two. This will allow for some truly competitive play, but close matches could still be decided by an extra grenade bounce or a bit more worm slideage. In other words, there's no way to refine your skills, break away from the pack and declare yourself the very best.

Yes, this could be seen as being too hardcore, but I'd rather have that than #1 only being separated from #150 by luck.

There is probably a balance that can be made. Realistic physics that are hard to master, but are predictable WITH EFFORT, allowing for a larger middle-class of players. Or maybe better weapon balance that helps prevent excessively one-sided matches. But I suspect that this is too hard to do.

It makes more sense from the business side of things to make the game pretty, funny, customizable, feature-filled, but to do some cutting in the balanced gameplay department. Just make it loose and arcadey, requiring less thinking. It's cheaper that way, and will bring in more casual (read: dumb) gamers to boot.

That may be insulting, but the majority of games these days are severely lacking in gameplay depth and are too easy, either from a lack of effort, budget constraints, or what I suspect is the number 1 reason, targeting a larger market.

Take Zelda: Twilight Princess for example. Amazing graphics, story, level design, fun to play, but most of the enemies & bosses are pushovers, hidden treasure is too easy to find, items and health refills are plentiful, etc. It takes a lot of extra work to create a game that makes you think, and is challenging without being frustrating.

Ocarina Of Time and Majora's Mask had those properties in spades. I suspect that OOT near BURNED OUT its developers, it was so darn well-balanced. MM probably only had similar gameplay depth because it used almost the same engine and some of the same assets as OOT, so they were able to do better work on its (IMO) more important features.

Sorry for going on, but I needed to give some perspective on this issue to prevent my views from being misinterpreted. In short, I don't think that Reloaded is the replacement for WA to me, a somewhat old-school standard gametype lover, because of a lack of gameplay depth and a bit of a luck factor. And hey, the next WA beta update (if it ever arrives), will re-add a feature that's been missing for years now, which I consider to be 25% of the game's charm - high-detail randomly-generated maps!

[Shroom!]

Originally Posted by Akuryou13

actually, no. They care about old schoolers too. look at armageddon. everyone who plays it is a roper. all us old guys who loved worms for the strategy and the fun got booted out because all you new guys wanted to do was fling yourselves across the map with the rope. I've logged into armageddon several times throughout the new patches and never once did I see a normal game. I'm sure they happened from time to time, but the vast majority of the games are ropers or shoppers.

Team17 are catering to those of us who like ALL of worms armageddon, not just one item. With this game, we'll actually be able to play BnGs again, Normal games again. There will actually be a ranking list where the top player isn't just the best guy at using the ninja rope.

And the best part? Armageddon is being updated by someone not directly involved in T17, and will continue to be updated even with Reloaded out. That means that those of you who love your rope games can still play them with the entirety of the community that loves the rope games. The rest of us finally have a home now too. it's completely win-win.

I used to host normal games on W:A all the time. If you didn't see any normal games then why didn't you host some yourself? They would have filled right up. They always filled up when I hosted. 8 worms each, 5 or 6 teams... classic.

Saying there are never normal games hosted because of ropers taking over is a total lie. I see normals all the time, hysteria too amongst others. There is adequate room for ropers and non ropers alike on WormNet. We should get the same equal treatment on Steam.